Brandon Gill

GILL: Would you say that the goal of history is to be objective?

HARTIG (pauses): Thank you, sir, for the question. I think there are many goals of history, and certainly as you collect and examine evidence…

GILL: Is objectivity one of them?

HARTIG: We strive to be objective and nonpartisan…

GILL: So it’s one of the goals. Does it seem a little bit concerning that this white supremacy document that your organization has promoted shows that objectivity is a defining and core aspect of white supremacy culture?

Do you think it is the goal of the Smithsonian to promote white supremacist culture?

HARTIG (pauses and writes): Do you mind sharing with me which document?

(Gill shows her the document, Hartig then goes silent)

GILL: Are you promoting a white supremacy culture at the Smithsonian?

HARTIG (puzzled): Am I promoting…

GILL: Ma’am, is this a difficult question?

HARTIG: No, sir. I’m just thinking about the mass action toolkit. We didn’t develop it.

But, um…We’re not promoting any ideology.

GILL: Does it concern you that one of your goals is objectivity, yet your mass toolkit references objectivity as a defining characteristic of white supremacy?

HARTIG: It’s not our toolkit…It is used as a reference, I believe, in 2019, 2020…

GILL: Yes, under your leadership, it has been used as a reference. Is Mickey Mouse racist?

HARTIG: Mickey Mouse is not racist.

GILL: According to the Smithsonian Institute, one of your exhibits referenced Mickey Mouse as “one of the last vestiges of black-faced minstrelsy.” Would you describe that as racist?

HARTIG: No, the historical trajectories of the origins of, of, of, Mickey Mouse tie directly to uh…

GILL: So, Mickey Mouse is rooted in racism. Is that your testimony?

HARTIG: No, sir, it’s rooted in minstrelsy.

GILL: You don’t think black-faced minstrelsy is racist?

HARTIG: It has certain and obvious racial overtones.

GILL: Do you think it’s problematic that Mickey Mouse also has those racial overtones?

HARTIG: It’s not for me to determine what’s problematic; it’s for me to determine what’s accurate.

GILL: Is it important to be polite?

HARTIG: Excuse me?

GILL: Is it important to be polite?

HARTIG: Yes, sir.

GILL: Interesting. The same mass toolkit your organization has been promoting references politeness as a defining characteristic of white supremacy culture.

Ma’am, are you a white supremacist?

HARTIG: No, sir.

GILL: Can you help me square why your organization says that being polite is a part of being a white supremacist?

HARTIG: I’m not familiar with the passage.

GILL: I just read you the passage from it.

HARTIG: And then your question was, sir?